May 9, 2023

009 - Navigating Autism Behaviors: A Parent's Story – with R “Doc” Davis

009 - Navigating Autism Behaviors: A Parent's Story – with R “Doc” Davis

On this episode of De-Escalation Conversations, we explore the world of autism and self-injurious behavior. Ronald “Doc” Davis shares his personal experience of having a son who struggles with self-aggression and the severity of his son's injuries, which have led to potential legal investigations.  We examine the psychological impact on officers who use force in such situations and the importance of patience and communication skills in crisis intervention. We also learn about the different ways autistic individuals self-calm and engage in self-stimulating behavior. This episode of the podcast was recorded at the annual conference of ILEETA, the International Law Enforcement Educators Trainers Association, where Doc presents his insights as an instructor in Crisis Management. Overall, this episode sheds light on the challenges and strategies for De-Escalation in Autism-related crisis situations.

GUEST BIO
Ronald “Doc” Davis has a PhD in Psychology with a focus on Hostage Negotiation, Crisis Intervention, Stress, and Autism. After serving 4 years in the military and 20 years in law enforcement, he retired from the Boynton Beach Florida Police Department as a Sergeant in charge of their Crime Prevention Unit. 

Additionally, he served as the Team Commander for both the Hostage Negotiation and Critical Incident Stress Management Teams. 

Doc also taught undergraduate college courses for a number of years before deciding to focus on the Law Enforcement community’s training needs.

  Key Topics

- Introduction to the podcast episode and speaker 

 - Self-injury behaviors (SIBs) in the world of autism 

 - Son's self-aggressive behaviors and injuries 

 - Potential legal issues related to severity of injuries 

 - Lawsuit and prosecution in escalated situation 

 - Importance and psychological impact of use of force by officers 

 - Story of Elizabeth Bonkers, a nonverbal valedictorian who learned to communicate through typing 

 - Importance of having home security cameras and responding to reports of potential abuse 

 - Speaker's doctoral research on crisis intervention, with personal focus on autism 

 - Self-stimulating behaviors and efforts to redirect 

 - Speaker's background and transition from law enforcement to psychology 

 - Importance of active listening and empathy in communication and interventions 

 - Broad topics related to autism spectrum and different state statutes on psychological evaluations 

 - Overview of the ILEETA conference 

 - ILEETA.org and connection with the host and speaker's presentation experience during the conference. 

 

IDEA - the International De-Escalation Association, is dedicated to Saving Lives, Reputations, & Relationships through Conflict De-Escalation & Communication Training for Teachers, Parents, and Public Safety Providers.

Find more about
How to Calm an Angry Person in 90 Seconds or Less
Come visit us at the IDEA website (International De-Escalation Association):
https://TheIdea.World

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Do you or your organization need Communication Skills and De-Escalation Training? You can reach us directly at: Team@TheIdea.World or by filling out a contact form at https://www.TheIdea.World/contact

Transcript
Unknown:

When they go to confront the kid, the kid turns and runs the kid actually can be heard on the officers body cam, saying he had a gun. And he does reach for his waistband, the officers end up shooting. The kid lived he did not have a real gun. People don't think about the psychological impact on those officers for having had to use that force to instead of your pay now pay later analogy I steal from the tactical world. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. You need to come right away. There's a man with a gun and

Kerry Mensior:

emergency signal All available units will code that well. Welcome to the deescalation conversations podcast. This week we have a really great guest. The subject is navigating autism behaviors. And this is told from two perspectives. One, a law enforcement officer and to the dad of an autistic child, Doc Davis, who want a great guy he is he has a PhD and psychology. And what's interesting is his focus is on hostage negotiation, crisis, intervention, stress and autism. And he was duct Davis before he was a PhD doctor, because he was in the Navy as a corpsman and and served healing Marines. He worked with the marine unit. He served four years in the military and 20 years in law enforcement. He retired from the Boynton Beach, Florida police department as a sergeant, and he was in charge of their Crime Prevention Unit. Additionally, he also served as team commander for both the hostage negotiation and critical incident stress management teams. He's also taught under graduate college courses for a number of years, before deciding to focus on law enforcement communities training needs, you can find them on LinkedIn. We'll also have his other contact information in the show notes. And I interviewed doc at the eye leader conference in 2023. In St. Louis, Missouri, one of my top two favorite conferences to go to every year. If you're a law enforcement trainer, and you're not familiar with a leader, the international law enforcement educators and trainers Association. I'll put the link for their website in the show notes. You absolutely have to check I lead out. I've been teaching for I lead it their conferences for about seven years now. And I usually do at least two classes, sometimes as many as four like I did this year. And every single one of them. I learned as much from the participants, as the participants might learn from me. So definitely check out I lead a check out doc Davis. And certainly, of course, listen to this podcast episode because he is going to share some information and it's just going to tug at your heartstrings. It's great information to keep you safe. No matter whether you're a K through 12 educator, a first responder or flight attendant, because we all know there's no cover at 37,000 feet. Enjoy the show. Welcome to the deescalation conversation podcast. I am here with just really quite an amazing guy, Doc Davis. And we'll talk about where Doc came from because he's like a doc squared. I'll explain that one. So hang with me for that. Doc Davis is an amazing man. Just you just heard the intro that I gave about him. And what we're going to be doing for the next little bit is talking about the specialty areas because he has several that he shares with officers information on that. Literally it saves lives and it makes people's lives better start. Welcome to the show.

Unknown:

Appreciate you having me, Carrie.

Kerry Mensior:

So one of the first questions I asked folks is how what was the path? What was the journey to lead you to where we are sitting here today?

Unknown:

I wasn't doing well in school ended up going into the military, which kind of really straightened out a lot of the issues I was having as a confused young individual ended up as a Navy corpsman with Marine Infantry, which is as you kind of alluded to where Doc started. Being a combat medic with Marine Infantry, I kind of lost my original name and just became doc. When I got out of the military. I went into law enforcement My first cup job was in a small little city called Salisbury, Maryland, got really tired of being cold. So I moved to South Florida, started working at an agency called Boynton Beach in Palm Beach County, was there for 15 years. And along the way, I started realizing there was a need to have a plan for life after law enforcement, went back to school had a lot of really good influences. ended up doing my PhD in psychology and the doctor doc d squared. Glad to see you didn't say I was a square, thank you. But again, as I was going through school, my second son was born. And by the time he was about 18 months old, we realized that he wasn't developing normally, a lot of doctor's visits, a lot of testing later, we finally got the diagnosis that my son was autistic. And that really kind of hyper focused me on the world of autism. I had already been exposed to it, running a hostage negotiation team, I had always tried to find the best ways to round out my negotiators experience. So I had introduced them to autism and had autistic individuals come in and speak to my team so that they could get a greater understanding of interacting with that segment of society. But then when it hit home, it really kind of pushed me to another level with that. I bet. And how's your son today, my son is now 12. And back at I

Kerry Mensior:

can tell you that even as much as I know about autism, I'm still pretty ignorant about the entire subject. If there was a percentage of population

Unknown:

that is on the spectrum, do you have any idea what that

Kerry Mensior:

number might look like?

Unknown:

Approximately 2% of the population is diagnosed with autism. Okay, we're talking over, we're in the millions of individuals just in this country. And autism is the fastest growing developmental disorder not just in the US, but also in the world. So the likelihood

Kerry Mensior:

of one of our listeners who there everybody from school teachers, to law enforcement, first responders, firefighters, people in medical services, flight attendants, having an encounter with somebody who's on the spectrum, is pretty likely

Unknown:

not Absolutely. One of the numbers that would actually probably mean more than that percentage number is the current diagnostic rate. The CDC in 2018, increased the number they now consider that one out of every 44 children will be diagnosed with autism or be on the spectrum. Due to a specific genetic discrepancy. There are four boys for every one girl diagnosed. So for boys, it's like one in 22 to one in 24 boys will be diagnosed,

Kerry Mensior:

which really puts in perspective, because when you say 2%, it would be natural to think, okay, 2% that's not that much. But when you say one and 22, or even just one and 44. And like, okay, that is that is. I mean, that's a big number really? Yeah.

Unknown:

So that number actually, sorry, that number actually is a little misleading, because there is actually national institute of health surveys that go back prior to that, as far as 2016. That suggested the number in 2016 was actually one in 40. And it's not that it got to a lesser point two years later, it's just a difference in methodologies used, the CDC won't endorse the higher percentage of the higher rate of occurrence that the NIH survey came up with, because of the methodology used in that survey. So really one in 44 is under counting what's going on. And what a lot of people don't stop to think about is that autistic children become autistic adults. This is not something that people grow out of as they get older.

Kerry Mensior:

So if I'm a school teacher, and I know a lot of schools have the benefit of IEPs individual educational plans. And, you know, oftentimes before a school teacher has interaction with the child, they are they're there. diagnosed and there's some there's some preparatory

Unknown:

ability there for a school teacher, or or even a parent in particular,

Kerry Mensior:

is there any, if you had to say there's three key things you could do. I'm blindsiding you with this because we didn't talk about this before, is there three things or two things or one thing that you can do to help make just your consistent day to day interactions go better with with a child talking about child first.

Unknown:

Again, it's difficult to say because when we talk about the autism spectrum, you have to realize how broad of a topic we're breaching here. When the American Psychological Association released the DSM five, in 2013, they actually eliminated four of the named disorders. So most of your listeners will probably have heard the term Asperger syndrome that was removed from the DSM, it's not there anymore. Since the DSM five came out in 2013. They removed Asperger Syndrome, they removed Pervasive Developmental Disorder, they removed childhood disintegrative disorder and they removed Rett syndrome. Those four are no longer there, everything is now just considered Autism Spectrum Disorder, level one, two, or three. And it's a very linear way to think about it. And there's some pushes to change that. But that's a topic for another day. That linear model at one end, you have an individual in a wheelchair, pretty much incapable of even basic life sustaining self care. At the other end of the spectrum, you have Elon Musk and Daryl, Hannah and Dan Ackroyd, those three individuals have come out and publicly acknowledged their autism diagnosis. There are other very famous individuals out in the world that have either publicly acknowledged or continued to try to keep their medical situation private, to each their own. Dr. Temple Grandin completely revolutionized the beef industry, both in the United States and Australia. Aspergers, very phenomenal woman. But so, again, it's such a broad area, it's hard to put in place three simple rules. One of the things I will say is that a lot of autistic individuals find comfort in routine and familiarity. Number two, they will develop their own methods for attempting to self call, and some of them look harmful. And obviously, we never want to allow an individual to self harm. But we have to, especially on the law enforcement side, recognize the difference between a behavior that is designed to harm the self versus one that may be harmful, but isn't an attempt to calm? And that's where a lot of the different state statutes on involuntary psychological evaluations come in?

Kerry Mensior:

Yeah, and I definitely want to dive into that. So you gave two things, what would a third be if you can

Unknown:

patients, it is going to take endless, endless amounts of patients. When I'm teaching law enforcement, I always try to get them to comprehend the frustration this way. In movies, you'll sometimes see where somebody goes to sleep in one place, and they wake up and they've been moved somewhere else. Like in can you see me now part two, where they all of a sudden wake up and they're in the Far East? Imagine if you woke up tomorrow in a country that doesn't speak English and you don't speak the local language? How frustrated would you get when you know exactly what you're trying to say? You know exactly what your wants and needs are, but nobody around you can understand what you're saying. They're not getting it. You're delivering the message in a way that's perfectly clear to you that nobody else can understand. Think about that. There's a young lady who graduated from Rollins College in Florida this past year. Her name is Elizabeth bonkers. She's out on YouTube wonderful video, she gives the valedictorian speech for her graduating class, and her autism is such that she is completely nonverbal. she typed her valedictorian speech using the old fashioned one finger hunt and peck on a keyboard. She's also at a point where she actually needs help to get through asked, but that's no indication of the intellect locked inside her head. And listening to her speech is really kind of eye opening and enlightening for how, you know, she talks about being locked in the silent cage. And learning to type was the only thing that finally gave her that window of communication with the outside world where people could begin to recognize the actual intellect that was there. Apparently, she says that, when her high school principal found out that she was graduating valedictorian, he apparently was quoted as saying the retard can't be valedictorian. Wow, a lot of misunderstanding response I

Kerry Mensior:

have for that, wow.

Unknown:

Yeah, there's a lot of misunderstanding in the world. And it's key to understand that autistic people, it's not that there's something wrong. It's just that there's something different.

Kerry Mensior:

I think your analogy of waking up in a country where you cannot communicate with anybody else, because you're doing it just fine, and they don't understand you. I think that's a really powerful framework to use for people to, to, to be able to when they're frustrated, take a step back from that frustration and go, Okay, maybe I'm the person who's not listening well enough.

Unknown:

Well, and again, I don't want it to sound like it's getting into an issue of fault. It's not about fault. But it is important to always, you know, the empathy that we talked about constantly, it's always important to try to see things from the other person's perspective. You know, just because you're right doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong. And it works the other way around. So it becomes very important to try to understand the world from that person's point of view.

Kerry Mensior:

Very cool. Very cool. So if a law enforcement officer encounters a person, it seems to be acting differently. Let's go back to this number two thing that you mentioned, the self comforting actions that might look like they're harming themselves might be misinterpreted. Not just for law enforcement officers, but for anybody. Can you give me some examples and give our listeners some examples of what that might look like?

Unknown:

Well, it's not always just the issue of harm. I'll answer it directly. And then I'll get into the rest of that. Unfortunately, what we call self injury behaviors, si B's are a frequent issue in the world of autism. My son is 12 years old, he is very self aggressive. He punches himself pretty much everywhere. He currently has two black eyes, his left cheek is puffy and swollen. He has bruises and multiple stages of healing on both outer arms where he punches himself in the arms, his thighs, a four and a half, I have no idea what he did. I was coming in from outside and he had cut the back of his right arm open. So at four and a half, he had 14 stitches put in the back of his right arm. A few years later, he fell and ended up getting five staples in his head. So it's kind of a miracle that I haven't been the subject of a DCF investigation yet.

Kerry Mensior:

He was thinking, how do you how do you how do you go to an ER and explain? Oh, yeah, my kid did that too.

Unknown:

I've been extremely fortunate in that the region I'm in the doctors are aware of autism. And they understand. But I'll be honest with you, my paranoia regarding an officer or a social worker, not understanding is to the point that my internal house security cameras are as much for documentation of how my son got injured as they are for somebody breaking in. Yeah, that makes

Kerry Mensior:

sense. So when your son is hitting himself, If this is not too personal, is that part of that self comforting or is it? Is it frustration? Do you have any idea? Does anybody know? It can be all of the above.

Unknown:

autistic individuals engage in what's called stimming self stimulating behavior. And I stole this analogy from another instructor in South Florida. But he talks about you go to the grocery store and you're walking up to get into the 10 item or less line, and you get that one person who speed walks to get in front of you. Okay, and you look in their cart is full, and you're like 10 items or less

Kerry Mensior:

full cart. And they cut me off. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown:

So you sit in there and you know, you're starting to your hand So like ringing the shopping cart, almost like you know, you're, you're like the reverse revving a motorcycle, and you're sitting there and they put all that crap up on the belt, of course the employee doesn't care. So now you get even more frustrated and you start talking to yourself that little bit of a hum going on. And you may be like starting to pace, I decide between the candy and the magazines. And then they whip out the coupons and then check in by now you are dramatically bouncing and ringing. And all of it is an attempt to keep yourself from going up there and choking the living daylights out of this person who so clearly deserves it. That's what self stimulating behavior is physical motion designed to help calm the mind. But in autism, it might be much more pronounced, the humming is going to be very loud, as loud as we're talking now or louder. The movements you'll see the tonic clonic arm movements, you'll see hand flapping, full body rocking. All of this is again physical motion designed to help calm the mind. So when you take that to an extreme, you look at you know, one of my son's things is he punches himself in the face. And that is a very extreme version of that stimming he can literally be sitting there watching a video, and 123 and then he'll stop and watching the video when there we go again, and then stop. So but it can also be frustration. So in you can sometimes see the frustration and the face the tension. So it can be both. Now obviously, with the self injury behaviors, we try to block that behavior, we try to redirect that behavior. We try to find ways to help them find a more healthy outlet for that energy. But he's quick.

Kerry Mensior:

Apparently he's very keen you put him in like one of those Redman suits if you don't know what the Redman suit, it's, it's it's what used for defensive tactics. It's like full body padding, put him in Redman suit. Oh, no.

Unknown:

I thought about putting me in one of those. Well, I

Kerry Mensior:

was, I was actually given my next comment is that does this How often does this Deming turn to another person? And is there any correlation between frustration? Or is it just a random thing? And again, that third disclaimer, does anybody even know?

Unknown:

Well, this now gets into the realm of what's called a meltdown. And everybody's familiar with children throwing temper tantrums, a meltdown from the outside looks identical to a temper tantrum. The difference is what's going on inside the brain. We know through years of experience and training that you cannot stop the seizure. If somebody's having a seizure, the best thing we can do is we don't try to restrain them. We try to get everything out of the way so that while they're having especially the grand mal seizures, we tried to get everything out of the way so that they don't hurt themselves during the seizure.

Kerry Mensior:

Yeah, protect the head and watch the show.

Unknown:

An individual an autistic individual having a meltdown, has as much control over the meltdown, as the seizure patient has seizure. Effectively think about it as an electrical storm in the brain that then causes the behaviors. So if they're flailing and lashing, and my son was having one, it was the middle of the night, I had to be up early the next morning to drive two hours to conduct a class. And all I could do was just it was the middle of the night. He's thrashing in his bed, all I could do is just call him behind him. And essentially body lock him to try and prevent him from hurting himself. So I could just fall back asleep. And he threw his head back and caught me dead center my right eye with the back of his head. So I'm now teaching crisis intervention with a black eye. It lends immediate credibility to the instructor. Yeah.

Kerry Mensior:

No kidding. So,

Unknown:

but again, there was no intent. Right? Yeah, it wasn't something he could control. So when officers are walking into these situations we look at he gave me a black eye. He did headbutt me, was their intent. He has bruises and multiple stages of healing. Is it abuse? And this becomes extremely important for law enforcement because we can't just dismiss it. Because estimates are 1/3 of special needs. Children are physically abused. So we have to be very careful. We've been taught that multiple bruises, multiple stages of healing, especially in in different areas, this is the classic indicator of child abuse. But it may not be. But at the same time it could

Kerry Mensior:

be might be. So we have to be very careful with that. So what do you what do you do with that? Either you if you've got somebody, I mean, you're you're brilliant enough to have in home security cameras. You are forceful enough part of that brilliance to say, Yeah, I might get broken into, but same time, this is going to keep me from getting prosecuted, because I can prove I didn't harm my son. What about somebody who's, who just hasn't listened to this podcast until today, hasn't thought that can't afford it doesn't have will, for whatever reason, they don't do it. And an officer rolls up. Because a neighbor of some some, you know, some person was walking by and heard some screaming and yelling, thrashing around, and I'm gonna call because they're abusing a child. What advice can you give the officer, the neighbor who is walking by? Who knows? And there's something odd going on in that house that kids get bruises and a black guy? Yeah, what what would you what advice could you give to that first responder, that individual who sees something happening at home in a parking lot, you know, because obviously go places with your son and insurances.

Unknown:

For the first responders, the key is going to be slow down. And I teach this in all my crisis classes, my negotiation classes, my autism classes, we have to slow down. I don't care how much your Sergeant Lieutenant Captain major God, whoever, I don't care how much they're yelling at you, you can only handle one call at a time. And if you slow down and handle that call properly, from the outset, you will end up using less time than if you push it and escalate, it escalated and make a mistake.

Kerry Mensior:

So it's like that those old I think it was Shell gas stations had this paint, you know, commercial way back when it was pay me now or pay me later. And they're encouraging people to get the oil changes in their cars. Yeah, you either either pay the price up front, get the oil change and protect your engine, or you're going to have to pay later for a new engine or a new car because your engine didn't last as long as it could. So in this case, paying me now i It seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm gonna throw this concept out, pay me now keeps us from having a lawsuit later, potentially, or goes boring or anything else,

Unknown:

that lawsuit prosecution, you end up getting into an escalated situation where we have the use of force, Salt Lake City got a call to respond to an autistic individual. The mother reported the kid was highly upset. And she said he had a gun. But she didn't think it was real. And the officer said, Well, how do you know it's not real? Because well, I don't but I don't think it's real. And they tell her well, then we have to treat it as if it's real. When they go to confront the kid. The kid turns and runs the kid actually can be heard on the officers body cam saying he had a gun and he does reach for his waistband. The officers end up shooting him the kid lived he did not have a real gun. People don't think about the psychological impact on those officers for having had to use that force to instead of your pay now pay later analogy I steal from the tactical world. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. I love that same. That same. So let's shift gears just a little bit. I want to put the spotlight back on you know got

Kerry Mensior:

you do you so r&d to consulting. Tell me about that.

Unknown:

r&d To the name is kind of evolved. It started off as rains Davis and Davis there were three of us. My one partner Troy rains is moved out of Florida. He's now a homicide detective in Aurora, Colorado. The spurt the other Davis was my sister, Rita Davis. She's retired and move up to the Carolinas. And it kind of is now me. My first initial are doc Davis. So rd to evolve over time. Yeah, it was a very fortunate thing that it kept working.

Kerry Mensior:

And you've mentioned some of the trainings that you do. What's kind of the cafeteria menu that we can choose from

Unknown:

my point memory areas of focus with the you know, the doctoral research and everything has always been within the fields of hostage negotiation, crisis intervention. And then obviously, I added on the autism bit with the personal experience. Don't teach the Memphis model per se, meaning I'm not affiliated with Nami. But the information that I do teach comes directly out of the recommended elements within the Memphis model. So when they created the Memphis model, they wrote an article called the core elements, it's a 20 page document. Less than one and a half pages talk about that 40 hours of training, I took that page and a half. And that's where the foundation for my 40 hour crisis class came from. But I also take it from the perspective of a negotiator. I truly believe that crisis intervention is the single player version of the hostage or crisis negotiation, team sport. And it's something that cops do every day, at home at work. Everything is communication, interpersonal communication skills. It's foundational to everything we do in life, being able to communicate and understand people. If you were to give a couple of tips

Kerry Mensior:

on communication in general, not just focused on autism, but in general, for hostage negotiation for crisis, intervention, anything like that, what's what's kind of your one, two or three main go twos for that,

Unknown:

listen, more, speak less. It is much more important in any interaction to be a good listener than a good speaker. A lot of people when they think about negotiators, they think oh my god, this guy could sell ice to Eskimos and snowstorms. That's great. But it's more important to let the other person get their story out. It's important to understand how they got to where they are and why they're in that situation. A lot of times, you may be the first person to ever let that other individual have that moment. And that can be extremely powerful. And it always for me comes back to the stairway model. Use your active listening, display empathy. But as you know, Nicole for racy is got out there, we need to be careful with empathy because there is a dark side to it. But it is important to understand where people are coming from how they're viewing the situation in which they found themselves. By using those tools, we build rapport. Rapport gets us to trust, once we have the person's trust, then we can start to influence their thinking influence their decision making, and ultimately change their behavior.

Kerry Mensior:

Yeah, and that's the only way to have influence on somebody is that to get that trust established? Absolutely. Now, one of the things that I always say is everybody in this world has an addiction. And that addiction is to be understood. When you can demonstrate to the other person that you understand them. That is the biggest puzzle piece in that trust.

Unknown:

It's powerful. It's absolutely powerful.

Kerry Mensior:

There was something that you had mentioned earlier about the shift back over to autism for just a moment. You had mentioned to me something about an infinity loop or there was some symbol that you that you mentioned,

Unknown:

well, I actually brought you this today, it is the autism coin that I've had made up. And most people when they think about icons regarding autism, they think of the blue puzzle piece. And that was the device that was created by Autism Speaks. It's a great organization. It's predominantly clinicians and family members of autistic individuals. Now, when we think about puzzle pieces, we always kind of think about that one piece that's either missing or doesn't quite fit. And some members of the Autistic community are kind of offended by that. Because that line of thinking would seem to indicate that something is wrong with an individual okay? And they don't believe there's anything wrong with them. They're different the same way you're different from me. So they instead chose the infinity the rainbow infinity symbol, which is the symbol for Neuro diversity. Over time that evolved and they changed it to the golden infinity, the abbreviated symbol on the period Adding Table of Elements for gold being AU, which is the beginning of the word autism,

Kerry Mensior:

that's pretty darn cool. smarter people than makers, somebody who knew their table of elements. I forgot that after seventh grade. Yeah, it didn't seem relevant after that.

Unknown:

But again, so this is the coin I had made. And I want you

Kerry Mensior:

to have that one. Thank you. Absolutely, I really appreciate that. And then I'll put a picture up there for the listeners who are watching this on video. And if you're listening to this podcast, you can shift over to either the Facebook group or to YouTube. And I'll show you a close up of this. But on the left hand side, it says, starting the conversation, on the right hand side, it says awareness. And I love both of those. That's pretty darn cool. And then over here, it has acceptance. Different, not wrong, on the right hand side. And then of course, Doc Davis autism awareness in the the lettering. That's cool. And then the this is the infinity loop, the multicolored infinity loop. You talked about before, right? And

Unknown:

had that completely made up of puzzle pieces to kind of begin that conversation, as it says, starting the conversation about the puzzle piece versus the infinity loop. That is so freaking cool. I'm honored by the gift. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

Kerry Mensior:

So first of all, as we we begin to wrap things up, what would you say is the best way that our listeners can follow what you're doing? Have a, you know, where can they go to find out more about you about your training, how to connect with you if they're interested in having this type of training brought to them right?

Unknown:

Again, my website is already two rd two consulting llc.com. I will admit to not being as current on that as I should be, but I do get around to it eventually. I'm on Facebook as Florida negotiator, and LinkedIn as Doc Davis. So I try to update content on that about where I'm going to be and different articles that I ended up putting out.

Kerry Mensior:

That's awesome. So when the listeners in the show notes, I'll have links for all of those things in that rd, too is r&d. And then number two, correct. Okay, so rd two LLC, or D to consulting, LLC. Okay, well, looking at listeners look in the show notes that listen to me because I'm an idiot. And in the show notes, the correct links will be in there so you can get a hold of Doc Davis. Doc any last closing thoughts before we close up that anything in particular that our listeners need to know about hostage negotiation, crisis intervention, autism, your three years of specialty.

Unknown:

For those of you who do have autistic family members, be aware of the community resources there there. There are national resources, there are community based resources and every state. If you have the space for it, where you're putting those links, at the end of this, I can give you some of the national resources where people can link out and look for additional help. the autism community is usually very open and accepting and willing to provide help to other people, so that they can, again, learn some of the lessons that people have learned along the way. There are there is help, there are resources.

Kerry Mensior:

Let's make Jabeen apparent period. And having a child on the spectrum adds quite frankly, it just adds an extra layer where you need to be able to show that care and compassion and reach beyond your normal abilities. I have no doubt that your patients muscle got a lot bigger through the last few years.

Unknown:

Not as big as I wish it had made it to. But yeah, it has grown dramatically.

Kerry Mensior:

Well, one of my other favorite favorite phrases is progress, not perfection. Semper Vontae. So thank you for your time. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. And we're in the conference room. And I lead up the international law enforcement educators Trainers Association in St. Louis. It's the annual conference in March always around St. Patrick's Day. And Doc is here to not only learn from other people but also to deliver material he's just an amazing An instructor with amazing skill sets. I call it the trifecta that you have. And being able to come to a leader for a week of having, we have around a new we pack 700 bags this year for attendees. And so being able to have that number of instructors be able to come together, be able to learn from each other pick up skills, interact, pick up on new things during the expo with vendors. It's an amazing opportunity. I lead it pays nothing to say these amazing things. But I'm a big, big supporter and believer and I Lita and I have been for a number of years. I think with the exception of the year they were shut down for COVID. For lockdown, I've been here seven years, and presented it at least one to this time for classes every year. I lead is an amazing organization. And I'm glad that you remember it because we connected through a leader ultimately. And again, thanks for being here to our listeners. Tell your friends, let them know about the amazing doc Davis and all the different things that he can share with them to make their lives better, safer, easier, and allow them to serve their communities better and serve the families at a very high level. As always, until next time, stay safe. I hope you found a lot of great value in this episode of The de escalation conversations podcast, please be sure to go to our website the idea dot world th e ID e a dot world on that website. Just click on the link that resonates with you most if you're a K through 12 educator if you're a firefighter, medical services, law enforcement, flight attendants, whatever industry you're in, we have specialized training for you. So check that training out because literally it can save your life. It can save your relationship it can save your career. So check out the idea that world and I look forward to seeing you soon. Take care